February 18, 2009

Extremists Undermine State Sovereignty Movement

By Dave

jonesclownThere was nothing else on the radio late last night so I found myself listening to George Noory on Coast to Coast AM while driving home in the fog. I was pleasantly surprised that he was discussing the state sovereignty movement and the efforts of states to assert their rights under the 10th Amendment to the Constitution. Much to my dismay he was discussing this serious topic with two clowns — Alex Jones and Jerome Corsi.

He also had on State Representative Charles Key who is the sponsor of the sovereignty resolution in Oklahoma. Key is presumably serious about this topic and he laid out the argument for asserting state sovereignty pretty effectively. But I have to wonder if he realized how all the good he did in promoting the idea was undermined by appearing on the show with Jones and Corsi. All the credibility Key built up for the movement went right out the window when Jones started ranting about FEMA Camps (they don’t exist) and the international eugenicist conspiracy (a couple of crazy professors with a website) and how the current economic crisis was planned as a power grab by the international banks (who cleverly arranged to be bankrupted by it, fooling us all in their clever Jewish way) and government sponsored terrorism (Corsi is a prominent Truther). Or maybe Key doesn’t care, because he has also appeared on Jones’ radio show, apparently willing to do anything for publicity.

Defending the Constitution and restoring the rights and liberties on which this country was founded is pretty damned important. It’s something worth fighting for. It’s not something which ought to be trivialized. When you put it in the same context and at the same level as the silly conspiracy theories which Jones and Corsi make a living promoting then you lower it to their level. You take a real problem and a real issue and by association you render it as irrelevant as bigfoot and the Bohemian Grove.

I’m willing to believe that Jones and Corsi are well meaning, but by jumping on the bandwagon they do more harm than good. Because they have squandered what credibility they may once have had by outrageous behavior and promoting implausible theories they are poison to anything they touch. Like the Stormfront Nazis and John Birchers who flocked to Ron Paul’s presidential campaign, they become a distraction and a liability destroying the thing they want to promote. You can’t take them seriously and you can’t tell which of the things they say to take seriously either. They have no credibility and they lessen the credibility of anything they become associated with.

The state sovereignty movement has a chance to do some real good. It could help to reestablish the Constitutional balance between the states and the federal government. But it is always a mistake to promote a serious issue to the lunatic fringe, because while that may attract a small group of fanatical supporters, their presence will drive away the much larger body of concerned citizens who might support your cause. People are willing to fight for their constitutional rights, but they don’t want to be made to look like fools for doing it. It takes a lot of guts to stand up and defy the establishment even when you’ve got a strong argument and expect to be taken seriously. But it’s just self-defeating to take a stand when the guy standing up next to you is dressed in a bilkini and carrying a sign declaring that the Queen of England is the Antichrist.

You’re known by the company you keep, and if people like Jones and Corsi continue to be identified with state sovereignty it’s going to lose credibility and the broad support it needs to succeed. People will just write it off as another rant from the lunatic fringe and move on. They should go back to selling videos they produce in their basements to people who store survival rations in their beards and leave serious issues free of the taint of their clown squad.

22 Responses to “Extremists Undermine State Sovereignty Movement”

  1. lance manyon Says:
    February 23rd, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Corsi and Jones have more legitimacy in their little toe nail than you have in your entire pathetic universe. Why don’t you try using some real facts to back up your assertions instead of ad hominem (sic) attack.

  2. Dave Says:
    February 23rd, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    So you’re saying that Corsi and Jones didn’t appear on the Noory show and that they don’t believe in a variety of implausible conspiracy theories, including being truthers? I’d like to see your evidence clearing them of my accusations, because when I read their writing it still seems to say the same crazy stuff I accused them of.

    And BTW, you put (sic) after things which are misspelled when you are aware they are misspelled and are repeating that error for whatever reason. Since ad hominem is spelled correctly your use is quite chimerical.

    Dave

  3. Joshua Says:
    February 25th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Dave,

    Regardless of your opinion on Alex Jones he has put the State Sovereignty issue on the spear head of the Patriot Movement. The thousands of people who choose to spend their time handing out flyers and DVD’s exposing the New World Order agenda, and rasing money for the first responders of the 9/11 attacks (instead of watching FOX or CNN to see if Brad and Angelina are getting back together), are now also contacting their State Reps. and fighting for the Republic.

    Thanks,

    Joshua

  4. Gil Says:
    February 25th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    I have to agrea with the general idea that the fringe will almost always delegitimize a good movement, and this one is no different. I’m not a fan of jones by any stretch and I don’t buy the whole NWO thing either. However, it is these very people who are responsable for the surge in patriot movement awareness and even further, one of the chief mods in the prison planet forums, is the man who helped the colorado lawmaker get this whole state soveirngty movement started and was instrumental in getting Colorado, the first state to do this, to put this resolution on the books.

  5. Jack Says:
    March 2nd, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    I have to assume that your website’s title “Idiotwars.com” is a sorry attempt at satire meant to defame Infowars.com. Since the title Infowars is meant to represent a war using information than I must assume your website is an attempt to engage in war using idiots. Your sorry excuse for articles represent the charge of your website’s title well.

    Keep your head in the sand buddy.

  6. Dave Nalle Says:
    March 2nd, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    That would be a war AGAINST idiots, Jack. I take it you’re fighting for the other side, spreading disinformation and raising a fist for unreason.

    Dave

  7. Randy Fry Says:
    March 5th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    I actually got a great laugh with just the six comments, I had to write in. (I especially loved the “attempt to engage in war using idiots”).

    Dave, at least use your full and real name if you’re going to “crack the nuts of the lunatic fringe” You’ve got mine, and if you want real info write me anytime. I devoted a year and a half to full-on research. There is an unusual imbalance of eugenicists in higher rank and government. There are thousands of declassified documents exposing government programmes so obscene they had to pay millions of dollars in the 80’s to cover up the 60’s. Anyone with time on their hands and truth on their minds can get this.

    Watch out for Obama – he may have had good intentions, but he’s on the same ship Bush jumped off of. Good luck with your website too. Unless you are an educated disinformation shill. Then just f__k off. Regards…

  8. Axiom Says:
    March 6th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    Dave , i look forward to your writings on the following:
    1) Operation Northwood
    2) Operation Mockingbird ( including W.Colby’s famous quote concerning media ownership)
    3) The history of false flag attacks ( including Sun Tsu’s “Art of War” re. war and deception , and Mossad’s motto)
    4) The weight of credible science critical of water fluoridation,mercury and man made global warming.
    5) The reasons for the war on drugs and the war on terror.
    6) An expose of the “informing” MSM.
    7) The history of mass compulsory schooling.
    4)

  9. Dave Nalle Says:
    March 6th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    I’ve already addressed several of those issues. Others don’t interest me much. For something to be worth the time to debunk it has to either be so stupid it’s humorous or to at least have an appearance of credibility making it worth dissecting.

    Dave

  10. Axiom Says:
    March 7th, 2009 at 2:08 am

    ok dave maybe you would like to explain why the msm in usa has not touched the story about the live avian virus included in vaccines ?

  11. Axiom Says:
    March 7th, 2009 at 3:14 am

    Dave- could you please list your top 5 most stupid / humorous topics you’ve debunked please.

  12. JerseyMan Says:
    March 15th, 2009 at 3:33 am

    This article as well as your article on the tenth amendment site is misleading. It does not disclose the complete truth as to the extent of what state concerns and motivations are for seeking sovereignty. An obvious and widely resourced example is the Glenn Beck interview of Dan Itse on Fox news. He clearly stated involuntary military service, civilian military policing of states, and the move to ban guns by the obama administration as primary areas of concern to his state. This was not an alex jones (whoever he is) interview. And there are other representatives/state officials who have cited the same concerns (who wouldn’t?). The person who seems to lack credibility here (and more importantly a sense of reality comparable to the present state of our country) is you. You seem to be a common run of the mill coward who lives in denial and looks at the world through rose colored glasses even as it is burning down around him. Those of importance worry about truth and what is right. Not the perception of credibility given by the majority of ignorant masses who have complacently and shamefully sat by allowing the goings on of the last decade to unfold. Your article has sparked a curiosity in Alex Jones. Maybe he is a nut, we’ll see. But your obvious fear of him indicates a likelihood of at least some substance in what that man has to say.

  13. Dave Says:
    March 15th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Axxiom, I can point to a few quickly. I’m particularly fond of:

    How to Make Your Tinfoil Hat

    Let’s All Get Naked at the Bohemian Grove

    A Government of Criminals and Warmongers

    Dave

  14. Axiom Says:
    March 15th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    how are your comprehension skills dave ?
    i asked you which topics you had debunked , so how was the tin foil hat story a debunking ?

    as for bush , i guess you actually believe he is actually a leader and not a puppet for the corporate banking elite ?
    and you know what goes on at bohemian grove do you ?
    gay prostitutes and mock sacrifices are ok with you?
    i guess the secrecy of this group like the bilderberg group doesn’t concern you either ?

    you would struggle to debunk your mattress !

  15. Dave Nalle Says:
    March 15th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Well, Ax. You asked for humor, so I gave you some of the amusing ones. If you look real hard I bet you can find some of the more hardcore debunking.

    I don’t give a rat’s ass about Bush, he’s irrelevant. And I also don’t care what happens at the Bohemian grove. It’s silly sophomoric antics where old rich dudes blow off some steam.

    And yes, I have no problem with gay prostitutes and mock sacrifices – or at least no more of a problem with them than Nixon did. He understood what was going on and dismissed it as stupid and he was dead on.

    Secret groups which hold meetings in public places and invite hundreds of people many of whom talk about it afterwards aren’t really all that secret. Not letting Alex Jones in doesn’t make it a conspiracy.

    Dave

  16. Axiom Says:
    March 16th, 2009 at 8:47 am

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of plans for a new world order , and now it’s talked about by bush,brown,clinton and kissinger ?

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of microchipping human beings , and now it is happening ?

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of the bilderberg group whilst the media denied its existence , and now its existence is undeniable ?

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of a global financial collapse followed by designs for greater centralised banking regulation and control , and now it is happening ?

    Do you remember ?

  17. Dave Nalle Says:
    March 16th, 2009 at 11:11 am

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of plans for a new world order , and now it’s talked about by bush,brown,clinton and kissinger ?

    Do you mean kooks like our founding fathers? Or perhaps the kooks who put New World Order on the back of our paper money almost a century ago? It’s just a catch phrase.

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of microchipping human beings , and now it is happening ?

    Actually, I remember when it was a popular theme in Science Fiction and seen as realistic and inevitable rather than “kookery.”

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of the bilderberg group whilst the media denied its existence , and now its existence is undeniable ?

    No, actually. From the first time I ever heard of the Bilderbergers decades ago it was known to be a real group and its purposes and nature were not particularly secret.

    Do you remember a time when only “kooks” spoke of a global financial collapse followed by designs for greater centralised banking regulation and control , and now it is happening ?

    Now this is just silly. We’ve had global financial collapses several times before – on average 2 or 3 every hundred years and they are usually followed by reforms in the banking system.

    Do you remember ?

    Sounds to me like you’re engaging more in fantasizing than memory.

    Dave

  18. Axiom Says:
    March 16th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    The point is dave the “kooks” are a far more reliable and informative source than the msm , as i have shown above.
    So if you want to get way ahead of the news curve i would be listening to the “kooks” NOW !
    “Kooks” like alex jones , davis icke ,alan watt , and jeff rense.

    Unless of course you can show how the msm have made such accurate predictions ?

  19. JoeSwiss Says:
    March 21st, 2009 at 3:38 am

    Nice well-written article. But

    1. don’t worry about The People. They can recognize a good cause and ignore the kooks, re-legitimizing it in the process. They’re going to jump on this SSM train.

    2. The kooks deserve credit for awareness-raising. I’ve got my 10′ pole for things I really don’t need, but otherwise, let ‘em talk. They’re doing way more good than not.

  20. Etienne De La Boetie Says:
    March 21st, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Dave, perhaps you should find a new topic to blog about. I spent a while with an open mind reviewing your site looking for an example where you successfully debunked something… I was unsuccessful. Mostly you just call names and attack patriotic Americans like Alex Jones and Paul Craig Roberts who are both working for freedom and both doing an admirable job. You seem to be an annoying name caller and waster of people’s time. Keep drinking your fluoride, injecting your kids with vaccines, and maybe spend your time on a website that does some good vs. make you look like a dork. BTW, doesn’t the fact that the overwhelming majority of the comments are making fun of you and/or explaining how you are wrong tell you something?

  21. Allan A. Campbell Says:
    May 31st, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Dave; As one appearing to be an expert authority on the 10th Ammendment. Please answer these questions? As people are identified as a seperate party within the 10th Ammendment with implied power to reserve rights,what is the process/procedure to reserve people rights? Can you evidence a single 10th Ammendment right of people ever reserved? Am perplexed. States vote their rights into existence and after recordation give notice as to what rights are reserved. If people can’t reserve rights and its only limited to States then why are people even mentioned?

  22. Dave Says:
    September 24th, 2009 at 1:01 am

    Allan, the rights reserved for the people are all the rights not explicitly given to the federal government and not delegated by the people to their state governments. All rights ultimately reside in the people. Even the things the Constitution authorizes the federal government to do are only permissible because the people gave government those rights in the constitution.

    Dave

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